From jkatz Thu Sep 26 01:50 EDT 1996
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 01:50:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jochen Katz
Subject: Re: The Sudan Foundation - Report on Sudan
In article <firstname.lastname@example.org>,
Sean Gabb writes:
| The Sudan Foundation ...
| News Release
| Release Date: Friday 21 September 1996, 9:00 am
| In a Report issued today, the Sudan Foundation called on the British
| Government to reconsider its policy towards Sudan and to improve
| * Though called "Islamic fundamentalist", Sudan is incomparably
| more liberal than other Islamic states - far more so, indeed, than
| Saudi Arabia,
trying to compare yourself with somebody else who has one or two things
which are even worse is the usual way to try to shift the attention
from own atrocities.
| Women have rights. They
| sit in Parliament. They are Provincial Governors. They are
| allowed to drive.
Nothing against that, but what about the other things? A good list
of web info follows below. "Islamic" concentration camps, slavery,
crucifixion, cutting off of hands and legs, ... Hundreds of
Christians are killed in Sudan DAILY because of their being
Christians. Yes, killed, not "dying of old age".
| * There is no good evidence that Christians and pagans are actively
Is it allowed under current moderation rules to call a lie a lie?
| There is formal equality before the law for people of
| all faiths, and no legal barriers to conversion to and from Islam.
Maybe the prospect to be killed or sold into slavery is not a "legal"
barrier, but a rather powerful means of communicating the wished decision
| * The accusations of slavery and international terrorism, "simply do
| not stand up to impartial scrutiny". The legal institutions of
| slavery do not exist in Sudan.
Who said that this is officially legalized? Nice play of words. Because
stealing isn't legal in the US therefore it doesn't exist? Because
armed robbery isn't legal therefore the USA are absolutely free of crime?
No state in this day and age would make laws to officially allow slavery.
But it is practically allowed and thousands are enslaved. The Islamic
state is not punishing it. THAT is the problem.
| Without these, slavery in the sense
| normally understood cannot exist. And the Government is keenly
| enforcing the existing laws against false imprisonment. So far from
| promoting it, Sudan has been a repeated victim of international
| terrorism. The hijack last week of a Sudanese aeroplane - the
| third in as many years - is evidence of that.
Your logic is incredible. Aren't many Muslims calling the USA a great
terrorist state in the sense that they use their military power to
enforce some of their will even in Muslim lands [Iraq]? But there are
terrorist attacks on US institutions. Do these attacks therefore
constitute proof that the US is innocent of whatever it might be accused
If one mafia group attacks another mafia group, does that make the
Nobody thought it worth responding to this post. Does nobody KNOW about
the abhorrent situation in Sudan? Does nobody care? It is one of the
worst places you can be as a Christian or any non-Muslim [the animists
suffer just as much].
| Sudan is not perfect, Mr Gabb concedes. But it is no worse than any
| of its neighbours, and rather better than most.
one only wonders about the hundred thousands of refugees from Sudan
in the camps in the neighboring countries...
I haven't heard lately of refugee camps in Sudan filled with Egytians,
Ethopians, etc. How come?
| Sean Gabb is available for further comment on 0171 917 1854, or
| Internet email@example.com
Yes, how about some comments on the information provided by Amnesty
... big snip ...
| There is an active and largely uncensored Arabic press.
What about the press in other languages? The Arabs are the Muslims
in the North. WHat about the population of the South? And why only
"largely" uncensored? Well, most news don't need to be censored anyway.
The question is about the "problematic" ones like the situation in the
own country. Why are there no UN observers allowed to monitor the
situation of slavery? If it wouldn't exist then that shouldn't be
a problem, right?
| In my hotel bedroom, I was able to watch
| The Piano - complete with nude scenes that would not be
| allowed on British television.
I don't think that is of much help to the victims of torture.
Who cares if you can watch sex movies in your hotel room?
You can get them in any country if you pay enough money.
| Accusations of slavery are naturally emotive. And it would
| be a terrible crime if the Sudanese Government really were
| allowing a trade in human flesh from the black, southern areas
| to the north and to other Arab countries. However, these
| accusations simply do not stand up to impartial scrutiny.
Are you impartial? Why do you think Amnesty International is
partial? They have amply documented it.
etc etc. 90% of this huge article snipped. It is denial after denial
of the facts that are readily available to anybody who wants to open
his/her eyes. The Germans have largely been guilty by looking the other
way when the Nazis tried to exterminate the Jews. And most of the rest
of the outside world also turned a blind eye. Will we repeat that in
the case of the genocide of the Muslim North Military government on
the largely non-Muslim South of Sudan?
Here a number of information pages for all who what to know more facts.
There might be more material. Please let me know if you come accross
it on the WEB. I haven't looked into this for a long time. And though
I knew of it, didn't follow it much. But this article was just too
much a provocation to not respond. One of the most shameless non-truths
I have ever heard.
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